UNCC College Republicans

When?  Thursday, November 9, 2006 @ 7:00pm

Where?  UNCC's campus, Grigg Hall located at the Charlotte Research Institute portion of campus

 

Despite the stupid name for the day, this should be a fun event.  I'm sure we'll have plenty of wailing peace-at-any-cost protestors which is always a barrel 'o fun.  Hopefully everyone will get a useful first person perspective on the war on terror through Lt. Col. Minnick.

---

Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici

This is why I don't like Republicans. 


" Liberals and the Media Aiding and Abetting Terrorists."

Come on guys, you can do better than this.

How?  By lying and covering up the truth about what their beliefs are like many liberals and most of the MSM constantly do?

---

Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici

Well, I'm going to honest I don't understand your mangaled sentance ( or maybe im just supid:) ).  But if you really belive the media and liberals are acitvely helping terrorists, I think you need help.

Well I don't know why you have a problem reading English, but whatever. 

We did not say they are actively aiding terrorists....although in the case of a few AP photographers they do.  However I will say they certainly are aiding terrorists (their intentions aside) and I can dig up a mountain of evidence to prove it if you need.

---

Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici

Well, I'm sorry that you can't write a proper sentence, but whatever.

Yes, I would like to see how liberals are helping terrorists.

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F40F1FFE3D540C708EDDAF0894DE404482
exposing covert US tactics against terrorism

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/16/politics/16program.html?ei=5090&en=e32072d786623ac1&ex=1292389200&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1163022100-nCdBaSMPabNAI6ARUfeVSA
exposing more covert US tactics

http://www.nysun.com/article/41774?page_no=2
Al Qaeda's response to help from the New York Times

http://newsbusters.org/node/8577
CNN

http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1808360.php
(this statement was made before any trial was given to these soldiers and as of yet none of these "murderers" have even been charged)

http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=21956_Reuters_Doctoring_Photos_from_Beirut&only
Reuters/AP photographer doctoring photos in Lebanon

I could go on all night, but hopefully you'll get the point.  Any more questions?  Well if you have nothing else to say, feel free to spend the rest of your time in this thread showing me how to construct a proper sentence ;)

 

---

Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici

Hey I got an idea.  We should monitor every single phone call and every single email, I mean that way we catch all the terrorists right?   And if your against this plan your a terrorist lover, so you would support this plan right.  Why stop there though, more people die in car accidents than in terrorist attacks, we shouldn't allow people to drive cars anymore, and if your against your in favor of people dieing in car accidents.  Wait a minute those Danish cartoons could have increased terrorism too, we should not allow any bad speech against Muslims or terrorists,  and if you do like free speech your just a terrorist lover. 

I'm glad your willing to turn U.S.A into a police state but I'm not.  I refuse to let terrorists change my country and way of life.  Because if they succeed in doing so, hell they won.


By the way: The failure of the Iraq war has worsened the terrorist threat: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/24/world/middleeast/24terror.html?ex=1316750400&en=da252be85d1b39fa&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

And Bin Laden wanted Bush reelected: http://mediamatters.org/items/200610310011

"Hey I got an idea.  We should monitor every single phone call and every single email, I mean that way we catch all the terrorists right?   And if your against this plan your a terrorist lover, so you would support this plan right.  Why stop there though, more people die in car accidents than in terrorist attacks, we shouldn't allow people to drive cars anymore, and if your against your in favor of people dieing in car accidents.  Wait a minute those Danish cartoons could have increased terrorism too, we should not allow any bad speech against Muslims or terrorists,  and if you do like free speech your just a terrorist lover. 

I'm glad your willing to turn U.S.A into a police state but I'm not. "

Exhibit A: This folks is an example of what is commonly known as a "lunatic fringe" argument.  It involves trying to take someone's point to the radical extreme in an attempt to marginalize what they are saying and in turn avoid actually addressing the argument.

First of all, because war is the final straw in diplomatic relations it is always considered a failure.  I would suggest hearing both sides before coming to a conclusion on Iraq, you may find that you were misinformed.  You can even watch Lt. Col. Minnick's video from our event if you need some first hand info; we will be posting it on our site soon.

You have a very skewed definition of what constitutes a police state...Iraq was a police state, USSR was a police state, China is a police state.  The United States doesn't even come close and never has.  Througout our history in times of war the liberty of Americans has given way somewhat to security, but this always waxes and wanes.  Our system allows us to go back and forth, but never to one end or the other, no matter how much you people like you scream that it will.  You go from a few incidents where the US govt is tracking calls to and from an identified Al Qaeda operative's cell phone to "OMG THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE US A POLICE STATE!!!!" ....please.

"I refuse to let terrorists change my country and way of life.  Because if they succeed in doing so, hell they won."

So...yeah...great job on doing that before 9/11/2001.  Sadly for you, your ideas rest in a very small minority.  They've already succeeded in doing so, no matter how long you scream and cover your ears and close your eyes.

After we were attacked something certainly had to be done, I hope you'd agree with that at least.  You can disagree on how extreme our reaction should be sure, but just refusing to see how our country has already changed and how it must continue to change to protect ourselves is just silly.

---

Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici

Recently, Rep. Ron Paul of Texas and Rep. Walter Jones of North Carolina joined together on the House Floor to speak out against the Iraq War. Rep. Paul speaks first and then Rep. Jones. You may not agree with them, but their words are illuminating, at least to me; although, I do disagree with the War in Iraq.

http://www.house.gov/paul/images/layout/speaking.jpg

---

"Under capitalism everybody is the architect of his own fortune." - Ludwig von Mises

I used extreme examples to make an example.  Not everything is black and white like you guys like it.  If you like to keep civil liberties your not trying to help the terrorists. 

I'm sorry but I have to take Intel agencies over some lt. col word.

Hello, I didn't say America was a police state. 

Great for Bush, for ignoring Osama Bin Laden.  9/11 could have been prevented, the intelligence was there, it just wasn't acted on. 

Listen, I have no problem with programs fighting terrorists, I just ask that the president follow the law.  The NSA wiretapping program didn't, not to mention its pretty useless. 

I do agree something must have been done.  Iraq was a big mistake and it is a shame that so many people fell for it under the guise of patriotism.  Everything is a shade of gray, and when you guys try to add more surveillance programs to try to catch terrorists, I don't think your trying to turn America into a police state.  But when someone like me opposes the program, we immediately see "you help terrorists"  when thats not our goal. 

I find it fascinating that you are trying to debate the worth and utility of formerly covert, now not so much (thanks to the NY Times aiding and abetting terrorists) NSA wiretapping program.  I, a mere college student, am no expert in the field of counter-terrorism.  I have had no military experience.  I am not privy to the president's daily intelligence briefings.

And guess what...NEITHER ARE YOU.

You have no way to justify your statement that the NSA wiretapping is useless.  You have no first-hand knowledge of the program.  You are not a member of the National Security Agency, or the Homeland Security Department (though if you are, can I suggest you stop squandering taxpayers' money, quit wasting your time with college students, and start doing your job).

And to the argument that America has been reduced to a police state: again I find this fascinating, and somewhat humorous.  Are your phones tapped?  Has your email been searched?  Are you monitored by police as you go about your daily business?  If you think so, may I suggest you get your doctor to write you a perscription for Lithium.

Wow.  I'm going to explain this one more time.  As I said before, my former post was an example.  An example of how  the false dichotomy way of thinking is stupid, they aren't two choices, it's not either you support these programs or you help terrorists, or as I put it either your against these programs or you turning America into a police state.  Both are stupid and both are false dillemas.  Nothing is black and white.



As for the NSA program.  Your right I don't have firsthand knowledge.  But numerous F.B.I officials, who do have firsthand knowledge,  that dealt with the intelligence coming from the NSA program said the program almost always lead to a dead end and even took away from more productive counter-terrorism efforts. Forget it effectiveness, because I still believe that if something is probably illegal the public has a right to know. 


Just for fun, lets go through conservative logic. According to conservatives,   NY times story lead to the program being useless-----------> program is now useless--------------> Bush is trying to get the program passed through Congress right now.   Why is he trying to get a useless program passed?

When the government uses 'covert tactics' that are illegal, the media has a duty to report on the nature of those tactics.

The only problem with you folks carping about the illegal NSA wiretapping program is...it wasn't illegal.  Doesn't that just take the wind out of your sails?  If you say it's illegal I suppose you can explain why, other than just quoting the misinformation that headlines and politicians feed you.

---

Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici